”The Position Of The Chief Of Staff Is Relentlessly Demanding”

Our country’s first Military Representative to NATO, and the first general serving with the Alliance was Zoltán Szenes. Later he filled the position of Director and Chief of Defence Staff of MoD. Currently he is living a ’double’ life since on the one hand he teaches at the university of national defence, on the other hand he is ’executive directing’ Honvéd Pension Fund. This year, on the occasion of 23 October, he was promoted to general.

We met more than seven years ago in Naples for the first time. It happened when I found out that you are the first Hungarian general serving in a NATO position. Would you recall how you got to that position?

I have to begin the story not in Naples but in Brussels. As we all know, our country was invited to join the Alliance in the summer of 1997, at the NATO summit held in Madrid. The accession negotiations started almost immediately. As a result of that, Hungary established a NATO mission in Brussels, in the framework of which the bureau of military representation was founded. I had the honour of being nominated the first head of the representation bureau. I arrived to Brussels in February, 1998. My assignment was to integrate the country in the work of the North Atlantic Council, the Brussels-based international military personnel, and that of the committees. Our priority task was to promote the implementation of the minimum military requirements of the accession. In addition to that, I had to develop the Hungarian officers’ and non-commissioned officers’ system serving in the NATO command structure.

But you were not in Brussels to hear the Hungarian anthem, when it was played on the occasion of the accession.

Indeed, it hurts me a bit to this very day that I could not attend the accession ceremony personally. By that time I was in a transition phase between Brussels and Naples. Prior to the accession, the Alliance offered exactly 72 positions to Hungary. One of these was the position of Chief of Logistics Division at NATO HQ AFSOUTH in Naples, which required a one-star general. I had to take over this position, therefore in late March, we moved from Brussels to Naples together with my family in two cars. When I left the bureau of military representation, there were already 42 Hungarian officers and non-commissioned officers working at various NATO commands. My successor was Major General Dr. János Czékus.

Did you manage to fit in the new environment quickly?

I had to, since upon my arrival I was immediately in the middle of the air war launched by the Alliance against Serbia. This was a really good time for me to learn. Somehow it has always happened to me during my service that I was given a position or was transferred to places where there were a lot of things going on. For instance in the three and a half years while I was in Naples, I participated in five NATO operations in the Balkans. Such as the SFOR operation in Bosnia-Herzegovina, KFOR in Kosovo, AFOR, the humanitarian operation in Albania, and the weapon collection scheme in Macedonia. Then, after 11 September, 2001, the Mediterranean Sea operation which is still underway, and the logistics aspect of which has also been coordinated by us in Naples. Therefore I can say that my posting was very productive as regards peace operations, and I have gained plenty experiences. And of course, I have also travelled a lot, for the area of responsibility of the Naples headquarters was exceeding 2 million square kilometres. I have been to Greece for instance on a number of occasions; the country provided host nation support to KFOR forces. As regards the operation, it had a key importance since the troops and supply shipments to Kosovo were departing from Thessaloniki. We, the logistics personnel, had a command point there from which we were coordinating the shipments arriving to the port.

How would you sum up the time spent abroad?

It was very difficult for me when I was transferred from Brussels to Naples, but during my service I grew fond of the position and the accompanying tasks, assignments very much. I believe I have managed to learn a great number of things about NATO’s operative world. Resulting from my position, I felt ’at home’ between the strategic level, that is Mons, and the tactical level, namely the operations – and I still benefit from that to this very day.

You came home in the summer of 2002, to an absolutely new position.

I became the Director of Defence Staff of MoD. This position was created by the MoD General Staff and it was modelled on that of the NATO militaries. After me, there were two generals fulfilling this role: General János Mikita, who is currently the Deputy Chief of Staf, and General László Tömböl, the Commander of the Joint Forces Command. Unfortunately, this position did not last long, for it does not even exist today. With the reorganization of the ministry, the decrease in the number of the general staff and the transformation of its structure, it would have made no sense to keep it, therefore it was terminated.

After nearly five and a half years, was it difficult to get used to Hungary again?

It wasn’t difficult, since it is always easy for one to adapt to the domestic environment. What was difficult on the other hand, was the challenge of practicing the leadership and operational style I had mastered or got used to abroad. What do I mean by that? Just the very basics: in Brussels and Naples, I got used to working on the computer, for it was a basic requirement in the NATO. When I returned, this method was not an everyday routine even in the Ministry of Defence. Of course, there are counterexamples as well. At NATO headquarters – and I’d like to add the western militaries, too – the videoconference system is widely used. For example, during the Serbian air war we used it several times a day. We have developed the same system in the Hungarian Defence Forces, not only within the country but with the missions as well. The first ’peacetime’ chief of defence staff videoconference took place in early December, 2004, connecting the five subordinate commanders. This system is still up and running. In addition to that, we have also introduced that the meetings of the high command were attended not only by the chiefs and commanders, for their determining men were also sitting behind them all the time. Nevertheless, it is not easy to introduce the western style of working in Hungary.

Once you have mentioned the chief of staff-period, I would ask how did you become the number one soldier of the Hungarian Defence Forces from the director of the defence staff?

I was appointed to chief of defence staff on 1 March, 2003. But before that, from August 2002, the defence minister assigned me to coordinate the defence review, and to the committee in charge of the review. It meant that suddenly my sphere of influence was much bigger than what I used to have before as the director of the defence staff. And about the assignment, you must know that I wasn’t the only candidate. Three of us were aspiring to the position. There was a hearing before the defence minister, and what is more, even before the prime minister, but they consulted the general staff as well. Then they chose me.

A few curiosities from your chief of defence staff-period – one of them is that you were the first who became the number one soldier with a background in logistics.

In Hungary, in the history of the military, the tradition was that the chiefs of the defence staff had always come from the land forces, and had always been the representatives of combat branches, in other words they were infantrymen, tank personnel, reconnaissance troops, or artillerymen. This had changed with my appointment. Of course, this does not depend on qualities solely, but also on the kind of expertise, experience necessary for solving the tasks of the military. In my case, NATO experience helped a lot, since back then one of the key modernization targets was the fullest integration of the Hungarian Defence Forces in the Alliance. Naturally, I was very glad that this was the case, and I still trust very much that sooner or later, Hungary will have a chief of defence staff who is wearing a blue uniform, that is who belongs to the Air Force. I am convinced that many different sorts of experiences help the defence forces in meeting the new challenges. You must know that during my term of office, I have announced the ’blue uniform’ programme, meaning that I have tried to bring the highest possible number of aviators and air defence rocket-troops – that is soldiers in blue uniform – to the general staff. Of course, this could not be developed properly for there were small opportunities. This is why it was important to have well-prepared air force personnel operate in Veszprém.

The other curiosity: you were leading the Hungarian Defence Forces as a lieutenant general.

I have to confess: I have never forced to become a general. Though it is an undoubted fact that theoretically, this position is accompanied by a four-star general rank… Naturally, it did not sadden me, on the contrary: I was hoping that by the end of my assignment – envisaged for 2006 by me – perhaps it would be easier to fulfill another NATO position with three stars. There were some three-star positions I could have applied for with my qualifications and rank. Unfortunately, life has rewritten my plans… I could not achieve that chief of staff assignments are given for a definite period – just like they usually are in NATO member states – for this position is relentlessly demanding. It is simply physically impossible to perform ’burning on the same degree’ for a long time.

There were some who assumed there were political reasons in the background when you suddenly left the position of chief of defence staff. Is there any truth in that?

Absolutely not! The reason for my resignation was a specifically professional debate between me and the civil leadership of the Ministry of Defence. I did not agree with the planned structure of the high command and control of the military, and I thought that the right thing to do is not to assist in the implementation – against my better judgement. However, I was glad that my successor, General András Havril and I completed a regular handover-takeover procedure. The change of commanders was ’sealed’ with the handover-takeover of the unit flag in the scope of a personnel meeting.

From the position of chief of defence staff, how did you become the Executive Director of Honvéd Pension Fund?

I became the President of the fund’s board of directors back in 2002, when I was the Director of Defence Staff. This happened when there was a management crisis at the fund, and the representatives’ general assembly recalled the board of directors. Since I have also earned a diploma in economics, the ministry delegated me to the fund’s board of directors. I did not give up this position even when I was serving as the Chief of Defence Staff, the only difference was that during that period I transferred my remuneration to HDF Social Policy Foundation. I was appointed to this position following an application/selection procedure.

In addition to Aba Street – the main building of the pension fund – you can be found at Zrínyi Miklós University of National Defence for most of the time, since you give lectures at the institution as well. What majors do you teach?

I have been an associate professor since 1987. Currently I teach at the security and defence policy faculty, I have elaborated the ’defence policy foot’ of the security and defence policy major. In addition to that, I teach NATO studies and security theory. I teach NATO logistics as well for college students majoring in economy/management. Moreover, I have sessions in the chief of defence staff training as well. I also take part in PhD education, at the moment I am the head of the security studies scientific branch. Every year, I give several lectures abroad. So I teach a wide spectrum of studies, but only because I like to work with young people.

Do the students consider you a strict teacher?

I don’t think so. You must know that I mainly teach graduates, and by the time they get to the state exam it is quite inappropriate to be too strict. But I strongly expect them to work during the academic year and I do not sign the report card of those who do not perform, that is if they do not attend the lectures, do not write the tests or essays.