‘Patriotism Can Be Shown Also In Deeds’

What have you felt upon learning of this week’s tragic event in Afghanistan?

I was deeply staggered by the tragic death of Posthumous Lieutenant Gyula Kovács. This young man, barely thirty years old, died the death of heroes for the security of a foreign nation and for his comrades. He was aware of the risks of his mission, surely, he was one of the most prepared explosive ordnance disposal experts of the Hungarian Defence Forces. The technology and equipment used by him was the most up-to-date, but it seems there is something which gets the better of even that: brutality, the will of senseless destruction. A thorough investigation has to reveal who were able to blow up the bomb and how. We know that this cannot help him anymore, but the living can be protected by mapping out the exact circumstances of Gyula Kovács’s death. I condole with his family and mourn him, together with the Hungarian Defence Forces.

Turning our attention to the local events of last week: there is a debate going on for years, and it seems that the government and the opposition have finally came to an understanding about settling the issue of reservists. In what does the proposal made by the opposition now differ from the former ones?

The prime difference is that MP Mr Simicskó finally understood: in Hungary, the protection of the territory is the monopoly of the defence forces, as stipulated clearly in the Constitution. The national defence law states clearly who constitute the armed forces, and in this reservist forces are also mentioned. Thus the term ‘territorial protection force’ is unacceptable not because of political reasons, but constitutional considerations. As regards the reservist forces, they have been operating in Hungary for years, and existed even before the switch to voluntary army, but in today’s system a greater motivation is needed for someone to become a part of it. When someone has to go for training for two weeks two times a year he or she drops out of work, and of course we don’t want our reservists to lose their job, therefore we have to find the adequate form of incentive, both on the employers’ and on the employees’ side. This parliamentary decision gives occasion for us to review, together with other ministries, how we could motivate the parties, so that a well functioning reservist system can be established.

What kind of incentives could you conceive?

There are many kinds of concepts, but we should see that reviewing the voluntary reservist system does not belong solely to the Ministry of Defence’s sphere of interest. In order to identify the needed financial and social incentives, the cooperation of the Ministry of Social Affairs and Labour, or of the Ministry of Finance is required. I personally could imagine a version in which – on the model of START-card – we could give allowances for those employees who give their employees a leave to participate in the reservist system. This is one of the many possibilities, and also Mr Simicskó seemed to make positive statements on it. On the other hand I would like to emphasize that there is no comprehensive financial and legal impact assessment about this subject. And concerning the employer’s side, the system should be made known, since it’s possible that there are many people who – although they are patriotic enough to gladly spend a few years in this force – do not even know about this opportunity.

The international practice is quite divergent in view of the proportion of the reservist armed forces; it is 40 percent in Great Britain, much less in other countries. What would be ideal in Hungary?

Maybe it’s an exorbitant dream, but I believe that everybody should receive basic civil defence training. Today in Hungary, when talking about who is Hungarian, who is more Hungarian, it usually turns up in words only. The voluntary reservist system could be a good solution to show that patriotism in deeds, too. I would not like to tell a factual number, but I would be happy if women and men over 18 would try themselves in this system in the greatest possible number, so that they would be ready when the country and the nation needs help.

Regarding the organizational framework we can see many different examples around us. How would the Hungarian reservist system be organized?

The system should work within the framework of the Hungarian Defence Forces, since – as I’ve already said – the Constitution says so. Because up to this point the numbers were not very high, we could not assess how to identify the organizational structure correctly. Of course we have ideas, but in my opinion the establishment of the structure should be the army’s responsibility. I’m sure the headquarters staff would give a very precise guiding on this. First we should identify the suitable incentives until October, establishing the organizational framework should be part of the medium and long term programme.

According to the Hungarian Reservists’ Association it would be advisable if the members of the reservist forces could participate in missions. What do you think about this?

Since the Association has not approached the Ministry of Defence regarding this question, I cannot give you the official position, only my personal opinion. Those who are members of the defence forces as reservists have a limited amount of training yearly, while the Republic of Hungary is engaged in missions abroad where the best members of the forces are needed. Therefore I do not believe it would be right to send for example to Afghanistan people who have 4 to 6 weeks of training per year, since the security of our soldiers is of extreme importance in each mission. Those who would like to serve with a mission are welcome to join us as contractual troops.

Perhaps it’s too early to ask at the stage of preparation, but what resources would be needed for the establishment of the reservist system?

I would be the happiest if it would cost a lot, because this would mean that we are able to give a lot of allowances for a lot of employers and employees. I would not even dare to make an estimate about the funds needed to operate the system in the medium and long run, it will be clear during the process.

Let’s switch to another acute topic. What were the causes which led to last few weeks’ misunderstandings concerning the areas managed by the defence forces?

During the last few weeks civil organizations were besieging the MPs and the media with the taking over of power by the defence forces, since there is a new category called ‘priority national defence area’ in the National Country Planning Scheme. This misunderstanding arises from the lack of knowledge of the proposal and the amendments. This wording is needed because the issue of national defence areas have been already dealt with on the levels of settlement and county, but not on national level, so the decision was made to include it in the National Country Planning Scheme: there are some areas of Hungary, which are managed by the Hungarian Army and are used to perform the obligation of the Hungarian Army or of the NATO. We made it clear that naturally these facilities are the sole property of the Hungarian State. Civil organizations objected that whole towns are included in this category, but there is a reason for this: the county- and settlement-level country planning schemes should identify the barracks, forests and other areas used by the defence forces. I don’t believe that for example in Debrecen anyone would have any objection against a barrack, where soldiers work… One cause of the problems is that many believe that national defence and environmental protection have to oppose each other, while these are not values which exclude each other. Within HDF there are altogether 232 provisions dealing with environmental issues. I think it’s quite a lot. All of these are observed by the defence forces, and environmental protection is not the exclusive monopoly of civil organizations.

Another debate is going on about the proposal about the promotion of priority construction investments of the national economy, simply called the ‘accelerating act’, since it would speed up certain investments. The category of priority national defence area appears here also, but there is a strict right of municipal control on it, for concerning constructions on these areas the notary of the region or the settlement acts as professional authority in the first place or the national chief architect in the second place. So the rules will be stricter and the municipalities will have more say in these matters.

What has to be understood in this country eventually is that from the many values and interests none can be placed before the others: the Hungarian Defence Forces should perform their duties arising from the Constitution, for we, too, live here. The ministry has managed every investment with due foresight in terms of environmental protection, and will continue to do so in the future. Those who incite this debate emphasize that environmental aspects are above everything else, but I think we should consider every interest. The municipalities have great power, since in all cases a person outside of the ministry should judge whether a construction is allowed or not.

Thankfully there are no such debates regarding the C-17 airport of Pápa.

The consensus is complete in this issue, which should be a very important example for the Hungarian political elite. The mayor of Pápa – a member of the Fidesz party – and Mr Zoltán Gõgös, a member of the Hungarian Socialist Party and State Secretary of the Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development promoted the interest of the town jointly, and all the parties in Parliament gave their approval for the first C-17 aircraft and its crew of 160 to move here in the summer. The fact that the NATO organization responsible for its air shipments moves here is an extremely important one, since Hungary can be the first among the new NATO members to give place for such an institution. The parties of the Parliament agreed also about this. Hungary received great recognition even during the contract procedure and the competition preceding it, and we will have an important opportunity to make Hungarian competences even more known in the future. The possibilities of Pápa are also significant from the point of view of road constructions and other developments, or that those working at the base will do their shopping in the town. It is no mere chance that the governing parties and the opposition agreed in this issue, and all of us work toward bringing this agreement to a successful conclusion.

All of this is a good disclaimer of the opposition’s criticism saying that our country lags far behind within the organization regarding undertakings…

To answer this I usually say that our position is what determines our viewpoint. The perspective is very different in Budapest from the one when someone states his view for the local press or sends a message for the government from abroad. I find the debate about who and how performs in the NATO fruitless. Last year Hungary spent 1.21 percent of its GDP on national defence. I’ve been to several official conferences in NATO countries, and we have agreed with our partners everywhere that the absolute value of military expenditure is important, but NATO could not perform certain capabilities even with some member states spending large amounts on defence. The reason for this is that spending this money has not always been efficient: there were not enough cargo aircraft, helicopters, and so forth. So besides the amount it is also important on what we spend it. Because of this, consortiums like the one founded for the purpose of stationing the C-17s will be established in the future. In this consortium 13 NATO member states and two countries which are not members of NATO participate. There are investments which could be implemented only through cooperation, because of the expensive technology, we should understand this. Hungary naturally does not follow far behind in any respect, for there are countries that spend less in relation to GDP. The Minister of Defence has just announced in Canada that compared to the size of the land forces Hungary is the third most significant power in international missions, after the United States and Great Britain. Our soldiers are famous for their preparedness, discipline and their actions. Of course I would be much happier if we could spend more on national defence in relation to GDP, but we should understand that this is how much we have. And if we have that much, we have to spend it in the most efficient way. To those MPs of the opposition who criticize the budget of the Ministry of Defence continuously I would like to say: if in 2001 more carefully thought out decisions had been made regarding some supplies, than perhaps today we would be able to spend a considerably greater amount on other expenses of national defence. What is essential is that we can meet our commitments both abroad and at home, and that defence forces are the third most known organization by the society. This means that Hungarian soldiers do a good job.